Mistakes of the Government in Relation to Muslim Population

Humanrights.ge interviewed chairman of the Union of Georgian Muslims Tariel Nakaidze to find out what problems Georgian Muslims have; which regions are particularly problematic and what human rights situation of Muslim community is in Georgia nowadays.

- Mr. Tariel, during recent years, several religious conflicts have occurred in various regions of Georgia.  Human Rights Center studied the situation in Tchela and Mokhe villages on the place. Special commission was created to resolve the problem related with the disputed building in Mokhe village but you feel skeptical about this commission. What is the reason of your skepticism?

- I think this commission was incorrectly established and this precedent undermines the reputation of the country. It is incredible to set up a commission to estimate who is real owner of the building when it is obviously a mosque. Even orthodox people call it a mosque. The commission must make comprise decision that means it will belong neither to Muslims nor to Christians. They know very well that it is mosque and that’s why they want it to be a common building. It does not concern only to Mokhe. I think they have different plans here. From their point of you, it is sort of prevention because if this building becomes a common for everybody, then all disputed buildings will automatically become common for everybody. The Muslim population was against it from the very beginning. That’s why they should not have established the commission. Moreover, the person, who made mistakes in relation with the Muslim population, is also commission member. I think presence of Akaki Machutadze, Samtskhe-Javakheti regional governor, in the commission is not right decision. I believe one of the main purposes of the commission is to prolong the process to calm down the situation on the place. However, local Muslims are very active and they will not forget this problem so easily. It is also noteworthy that there is no controversy between Christians and Muslims there. Majority of local Christians is governed by the local eparchy – their positions are formulated according to the instructions from the local eparchy.

- Problems in Nigvziani, Tsintskaro and Samtatskaro villages were also mentioned in the Public Defender’s reports. What is the situation in those villages now?

- Problems were almost resolved in Nigvziani and Tsintskaro villages. Mosques are functioning there and people prey there. The problems still remain in Samtatskaro village. It is an isolated village nearby the border with Azerbaijan, where Muslims from Adjara were settled in a small compact settlement. Orthodox people seriously scared the Muslims there; there was serious intimidation against them. In fact, there was no political will to protect those people from intimidation. Even MIA participated in this process at some point and opposed opening of the mosque in Samtatskaro village.

Initially, people preyed in the house of local Muslim family. Finally, in 2013 they purchased the house for prayers. For that reason local municipal board and district governor started mobilization of society to oppose opening of the mosque in the village. I arrived there several times; representatives of different institutions also arrived but it was impossible to open the house there. There are about 40 active Muslims in Samtatskaro, who have to go to the mosque in the neighboring village to attend prayers. 

- We tried to arrive in Samtatskaro and interview local people but they refused to meet us. Could you tell us concrete examples of the oppression on the Muslim residents of Samtatskaro village?

- Nobody will agree to meet you because situation is still very tense in Samtatskaro. They do not want to renew the problem because they are afraid oppression will be renewed with it. Leader Suliko Khozrevanidze was under such a serious oppression, that he still cannot answer phone calls. About 200 persons attacked the family of mullah and threatened him. He almost went crazy. They attacked him after Friday prayers, in the evening. Officers of the security service arrived there from Tbilisi. It is all unverified information. They took the mullah somewhere by car and did something with him. In fact, upon return, he felt very bad; they ordered him to enter the building and pray there. At that moment, people were gathered in the house, who were shouting and scolding. The mullah was unconscious on that day. Only ordinary people were not guilty in this fact. If there were only people and government had not supported them, the Muslims would not have kept silence and be brave [to protect their rights]. The police claim they had not detected similar incident. They launched some investigation but then dropped it. Local administration and district governor are involved in this case. Irakli Shiolashvili was that time governor in the district. Consequently, the situation is very complicated in Samtatskaro district. Local Muslims are so unprotected that we could not convince them to continue struggle.

- Boarding school in Kobuleti also became spot of controversy between Christians and Muslims. Was the situation regulated there and is opening of the boarding school planned?

- It is a dormitory where school pupils live during 24 hours and go to public school. In the afternoon, when they return back, they attend additional classes. On the weekend they learn religious subjects. Of course this boarding school is for Muslim children. The school year has not started there. It is also significant that children’s right to education is also breached. It is noteworthy that the main purpose of the facility is not religious prayers. The problem is that the building was not appended to the sewerage system of the city. District administration does not reply anything about it. We paid the requested amount of money several months ago and everything is fine on our side. Nevertheless, it is impossible to open the boarding school and launch school year there.

- You mentioned educational programs; Orthodox people often say that Muslim children mainly receive religious education in Turkey and see some threat in it.

- Last year, about 70 children were sent to Turkey in the frame of different programs. There are special limits for foreigners there. It is noteworthy that 4 out of 70 children were from Adjara. Nobody will say that children must not go abroad for education. If you claim that Muslims must not get religious education abroad, then please open religious institutions in Georgia. Nobody asked whether people from Adjara wish to get religious education in Turkey! Did they ever ask this question?! Let them create relevant conditions in the country. I had an initiative to open a faculty at any institution in Tbilisi, where students would learn Islam. We want the state to cooperate with us instead isolation.

In any public school of Adjara autonomous republic about 50-80% of pupils are Muslims. However, teachers are not Muslim. It is significant that Muslim people have problems in promoting in career. If a person is Muslim, he has less chance to get employed. Of course, nobody tells him/her that reason of refusal is religion. I also worked for Batumi State University but due to my religion they completely abolished my position at the university; I could not do anything then; I could not even appeal the decision. However, it is very difficult to prove the fact of discrimination on religious grounds. Just imagine that 60% of the Adjara population is Muslim and they could not find at least one well-educated person who could be employed [at public agency]. 

- According to your report, there is one more problematic spot in Adigeni district – it is Plate village, where stones were removed from the mosque in 2007 and used for the construction of the church. Was investigation launched into this fact?

- When it happened in Plate village, I was representative of foreign relations unit at the Western Georgia’s Muslim Department. I arrived at Plate from and studied the situation. According to my information, the investigation was launched into the case; several Muslims from Plate village were questions, but they denied the allegation about stones. It became one reason for law enforcement bodies to drop investigation. Besides that, Muslims were questioned in Mokhe and other villages too. They did not have information about the incident and could not say anything in their testimonies. However, Public Defender addressed to the prosecutor’s office and requested to start investigation into the fact. 

- How will you evaluate the work of the Georgian Muslim Department?

- It was my idea to establish the Muslim department. In 2001 I had a serious speech about the issue. They almost ate me up then – they argued how could we establish a new patriarchate in the country?!  It is strange but in 2011, when the Muslim Department was established, muslims did not have information about it. They brought a statute and appointed the mufti. Moreover, one of the founders of the department was Christian. We protested it but could not raise this issue on international level. People think positive thing was done with the establishment of the Muslim department, but the department with its current form is unclear phenomenon. In fact, it was established by the MIA. You cannot hear the opinion of Muslim people in the statements of the department. For example, we heard the statement of the Department about the deconstruction of the Tchela minaret when they had no way out but interfere in the situation. However, they perceived the minaret as their property and as soon as it was deconstructed, they responded to the fact. I made the first statement about the minaret. As a result, people found us as radical group, who requested some disaster. In parallel to that, the Muslim Department was silent. To tell the truth, I had no information about the minaret before it was erected there. Even according to the statements of international organizations, we were radical group, because the Mufti Department had no complaints about the fact. 

- New mufti of the Muslim Department was appointed several months ago; what do you think is the reason of this change?

- It is change of faces. Some statements of Jemal Paksadze about the developments in Tchela and Mokhe villages had negative impact on his reputation. He had passive approach to similar issues. It caused negative attitude not only towards the Muslim department but towards his personality too. Before elections he promised us to help in Mokhe but did not keep promise. The state realized that the mufti, who was not right person in the negotiations with people, would not be appropriate candidate and they changed him. 

- Nowadays, some radical groups appeared in the country and you say it is caused by mistakes of the state. Please clarify, what kind mistakes do you mean?

- The Muslim Department was incorrectly established. In fact, the state did not envisage many factors. As a result, we received double situation: one group openly speak about it and argue while the second group does not argue about the issue but eventually leaves the mosque community. On that ground radical groups are created. It was promoted by the state policy and incorrect attitude towards the society. It was unreasonable decision and in fact the situation became uncontrolled.

There were some theological problems too. For example, they voluntarily appointed the mufti, though it is prohibited by the Islam theology. Muslim must pray under leadership of the person who is elected by the Muslim community. Who knows the rules, goes and stands apart. By the way, I also find it difficult to pray but due to my reputation in the community, I refrain from standing apart. We always try not to split community and maintain unity. I wish at least one person appeared in this country, who will realize that it is not correct.

- 23 functioning mosques were assigned to the Muslim community in Kvemo Kartli. How do you evaluate this decision of the state?

- The state did not assign those mosques to the community as properties but gave them for temporary use only. Moreover, the Muslims already used those mosques for prayers. Is it a successful decision?! It is sort of irritating form when you assign me something, which already belongs to me. This is technical issue that should be resolved by the state. If the state assigns the mosque in Mokhe, Kobuleti and Plate, it will be generous step taken by the state.